Posted By Lara Friedman
Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 1:16 PM
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The Palestinian leadership seems determined to bring its case for statehood to the U.N. in September. The details remain unknown, but that hasn't stopped pundits and groups from staking out hard-line positions opposing the effort. These reactions consist of a lot of hype and some measure of hysteria. It's time for a dose of clear thinking and common sense. The reality is that some Palestinian initiative is almost certain to come before the U.N. in September. Palestinians have lost faith in the negotiated approach to the peace process, and have settled on this new strategy without asking for American or Israeli approval. Indeed, the hysteria they are provoking only makes the strategy more attractive given their inability to get a meaningful response to anything else they propose.
Those who are truly concerned about what that could mean for Israel should be pressing for bold U.S. action to avert a collision at the U.N., rather than simply criticizing the Palestinians and demanding that they desist. The bold action, for example, could be in the form of a serious initiative to re-accredit peace efforts and give the Palestinians a real reason -- not just a thin pretext -- to change course, or a U.S.-backed initiative to transform the proposed U.N. action on Palestine into something broader, like a Security Council resolution embracing key peace parameters. Absent such an effort, the Palestinians will have a hard time backing off their U.N. strategy, even if they want to.
This should not be taken to mean that there are no reasons for concern. A U.N. resolution won't resolve the issues of borders, refugees, security and Jerusalem, nor can it end the occupation. It cannot build support on both sides for an acceptable final status agreement. Only negotiations that involve both Israel and the Palestinians can achieve these goals -- something that the Palestinian leadership itself has recognized.
It's true too that taking the Palestinians' case to the U.N. involves risk -- for all sides. It could become a pretext for accelerated Israeli actions on the ground that could hasten the demise of the two-state solution, as well as the application of sanctions on the Palestinians. It could cost the Palestinians desperately needed American and international financial and political assistance. Moreover, it could strengthen rejectionists --Palestinians and Israelis alike -- who oppose peace negotiations and a two-state solution and who welcome confrontation and violence as a means of closing the door to both.
There are also risks for the United States and Israel. A crisis at the U.N. over Palestine would exacerbate the growing U.S. and Israeli isolation on the issue. U.S. credibility will take a hit if Washington is seen, once again, to be opposing a resolution that is consistent with longstanding U.S. policy; Israel could find itself in an awkward position, given that it was the U.N. that gave birth to Israel after Israel's founders went to that same body with their own demand for recognition. However unlikely, it is conceivable that U.N. action could even pave the way for sanctions and multilateral enforcement efforts against Israel and its citizens.
But simply condemning the Palestinians and demanding that they desist, while browbeating other countries to get into line with the U.S. and Israel, is not an especially smart or effective counter-strategy. To push the Palestinian leadership in a different direction, the Palestinians must be offered a serious alternative way forward. Given Netanyahu's uncompromising May 2011 speech to the U.S. Congress and continued settlement expansion, do they have any reason to believe that negotiations offer such a route?
Whether people think it is a good idea or not, the Palestinians have the right to take their case to the U.N. Opposition to the U.N. strategy must directly address difficult questions. Is their U.N. initiative consistent with longstanding U.S. policy regarding permanent status issues? Is it consistent with a negotiated agreement that can resolve the conflict? Do the Palestinians have meaningful alternatives?
The U.N. option doesn't represent, as some would suggest, a Palestinian betrayal of the peace process or a rejection of a negotiated resolution to the conflict. Rather, it reflects the almost universally acknowledged loss of credibility of the current negotiating effort. It reveals the Palestinians' understandable conclusion that, as things stand today, negotiations will never end the occupation or deliver statehood. It discloses the Palestinians' quite understandable fear that the situation is nearing a tipping point, after which expansion of settlements and settlement-related infrastructure in the West Bank and East Jerusalem will make the two-state solution unworkable.
While the Palestinians' decision to appeal to the U.N. reflects the failure of the peace process, the U.N. effort itself contains some extremely constructive -- and largely overlooked -- elements, like the fact that the U.N. effort appears to be predicated on a continued Palestinian commitment to the two-state solution and to a permanent status agreement that is consistent with longstanding U.S. positions, the Arab Peace Initiative and the Israeli Peace Initiative. And the point that is perhaps most important, is the fact that the entire effort reflects the Palestinian leadership's continued determination to achieve progress through non-violent means. These elements should be welcomed and embraced, rather than dismissed in the zeal to attack the Palestinians for their U.N. strategy.
Lara Friedman is director of policy and government relations for Americans for Peace Now.
The UN bid is not an end to negotiations. It is about acquiring the universally recognized right of the palestinians to have their state. Even in Israel itself, support for the move is not confined to the radical left.
Former Defence Minister and second man in Kadima party Shaul Mofaz, who is not exactly a peace dove, has offered this temporary solution while talks continue as his recipe for resolving the conflict.
The US mediation, with its Denis Rosses and Aaron Millers, proved a big failiure and the Palestinians can no longer wait for the US president's second term to try again to end te conflict.. The US must just divest from the process and leave it for the UN to resolve.
Sniper - the champion of the rights of the wretched of the world
All those are nationals of their countries, unlike the Palestinians, who can't become Israeli citizens or live independently. You already know this.
Why don't you go back to your church and wait for the Messiah to return instead of advocating ethnic cleansing and war crimes?
What would be your solution perpetual occupation? Even under Israeli law the occupation is illegal.
Palestinians can take Jordanian citizenship
and live where they are. After all Jordan is 70% or more palestinian by population. It's army is majority palestinian. It's queen is Palestinian, and its prime minister is almost always a palestinian. Why make 2 palestinian states?
Jordan only holds together through martial law, foreign aid from USA and gulf arabs, and the security apparatus set up by the King (who is half british and half saudi - a remnant of colonial era policies).
Dumping the problem on someone else
Would Gaza and the West Bank become a part of Jordan or would they forcibly removed? Also, Jordan just revoked the citizenship of over 2400 Palestinians and Jordan doesn't want this problem dumped on them. Palestinians don't consider themselves Jordanians. They aren't in Jordan by choice and want to return home just like Jews.
If that is how the Palesitnians are treated by their
Jordanian "arab" brothers, then why should the Palestinians expect better from the Israelis?
Second, why should I care what the Jordanians want?
Third, by "the Jordanians," you mean KING ABDULLAH and the 30% or so of Jordan's population that is not ethnic Palestinian (bedouin arab tribes). King Abdullah is just worried about saving his own ass. He's a half-british, half-saudi monarch, who rules a country that is majority Palestinian. He controls through martial law and royal decrees. Why should we care about this colonial-era relic? Is it so important to save this monarchy vs. true democracy in Jordan (which would give the Palestinians control of the country through their simple majority)?
Why should Arabs treat the Palestinians well?
Those Arab governments are n't treating their own citizens well. It is strange that a bunch of Evangelical Christians have no shame in advocating ethnic cleansing and transfer, issues that any Israeli would feel ashamed of talking about.
That's the point. Jordanians and Palestinians are two different people. Americans and Canadians might share common ancestry, but we are two different people. Does the US have any responsibility for Canadian well being? Of course not. Secondly, Israel is responsible for Palestinians because their occupying Gaza and the West Bank and trying to incorporate them into Israel. How can Israel claim ownership of the land, but not the people who live on that land. Just like the US is responsible for the Puerto Rican people when it took over from Spain. If Israel doesn't want to be responsible for the West Bank and Gaza let them become an independent state and they can do what they want with their state. If Israel wants the territory they're also responsible for the people who live on that land. Israel can't have it both ways wanting the territory but dumping the responsibility of the population to Jordan. Also, how do you plan to relocate 4 million Palestinians to Jordan? You'll have to do a lot of ethnic cleansing which you seem very fond of.
Palestinians east and west of the Jordan river are the same people. In fact, many come from the same families and tribes. It's not like the commonalities of Anglo-countries. These people actually are the same people. They are related by blood, language, and religion. The border is just some artificial line created by colonialist british policy. The government is a hold-over monarchy created by the British for their own mid-east colonial policies.
You obviously don't understand the middle east or the palestinians to make such a comment.
Obviously you never spoken any Palestinians who will tell you they're not Jordanians and have no desire to become Jordanian citizens. They were born and raised in Gaza, West Bank or East Jerusalem and their families have lived there for many generations. They're not going change their nationality just because people on the right want them to.
obviously they just want as much land as they can take
from the "infidels." If that means creating a jordanian identity and a palestinian identity, they will.
Here is a quote from a PLO member:
on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:
The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.
For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.
Palestinians should also have their own state
BAlfour Declaration
"?Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."
Don't you think its peculiar that it mentions non-Jewish communities in Palestine?
Letter from Prime Minister Rabin to Chairman Yasser Arafat
In response to your letter of September 9, 1993, I wish to confirm to you that, in light of the PLO commitments included in your letter, the Government of Israel has decided to recognize the PLO as the representative of the Palestinian people and commence negotiations with the PLO within the Middle East peace process.
- Yitzak Rabin
Why would an Israeli Prime Minister recognize the PLO as representative of the Palestinian people if the Jordanian monarchy represents the Palestinian people?
"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
- David Ben Grunion
"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!"
-Yitzak Rabin
Some of the greatest men in Israeli history recognized Palestinians existed.
There are over 2.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank and 1.5 million in Gaza. The interlopers originally from East Europe and Russia have been on Palestinian land for less then sixty-five years. They were given a state on the land of others by the UN.
Now the descendants of these interlopers feel entitled to take the remaining land of the Palestinians and populate it with Jews only. If conceivable an even more morally reprehensible act. come September a homeland for the Palestinian people will finally be recognized officially worldwide. It is a new state called Palestine and will be defined by 1967 borders with EJ as capital. Home after all is home.
Palestine does not belong to the Jews and their right to the land is neither antecedent nor superior to that of the Arabs. Jews may have lived in Palestine 2000 years ago but the Arabs have established over one-and-half thousand years of continuous Arab-Muslim presence, and were only dispossessed of it by superior force and colonial machinatio¬n which continues to this day.
The Palestinians (as represented by the PLO) formally recognized both the reality of the state of Israel and "its right to live in peace and security" as per the September 9, 1993 letter from Chairman Arafat to Prime Minister Rabin and the subsequent double amendment of the PLO's Charter in 1996 and 1999.
What they cannot be expected to do is to renege on their past, deny their identity, and give up on what they believe is their history. They cannot be expected to become Zionists.
Israel will need to accept a Palestinia¬n state and start respecting the right of the people who occupied the land before you or you will not have peace. The burden is on you.U.N. Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 (which Israel had helped draft) which provided for "withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent [1967] conflict" in exchange for peace and security. Those resolutions represented official U.S. and international policy then, and they still do.
It is a matter of record that Abbas has negotiated with 18 israeli governments all the while israel continued it's apartheid rampage, land and resource theft, killings, and oppression all the while blaming the Palestinians.
What does Israel and the US suggest? That Abbas sit down for another 18 years of ‘negotiations’ while israel continues it's apartheid rampage? That israel, again, uses ‘negotiations’ as a cover for settlement activities He has wised up to the problems of his previous approach. More power to him.
While he declines negotiations the world is now seeing that it's not the Palestinians that were the problem but the israelis all along.
The Palestinains have demanded the 1967 borders for recognition of israel as a jewish state and good for them. For all of nettys whining about Abbas’ 'preconditions' we all knew netty had his and would present them as excuses for derailing the peace process.
But, a couple good things will come out of this. The Palestinians will eventually have to thank the israelis for building them all those nice houses free of charge and of course the jews can stay and live in Palestine if they want to but they will be subject to Palestinians laws - up to and including home dispossession.
Better yet, ship all those illegal settler terrorist squats to the Negev who complain, burn land, tear down olive trees, burn mosques, run over, kill, and beat Palestinians and let them be 'pioneers' there. They deserve to wander in their own desert for the next 40 years.
The israelis and cheesy pro-israeli hasbarists act like none of us here can read, disseminate information, google, or see the reality that the israelis are no partner for peace.
Someone who invades, kills, bombs, oppressess, occupies, and then tries like hell to spin it inspite of all the facts out here, is not interested in peace and that's israel.
And one more thing, for how long did you think that israel would be allowed to arrest and piss on Palestinian children, steal and destroy Palestinian land, enforce a barbaric siege against Gaza, murder peaceful protesters, look the other way while settlers murder Palestinians with impunity and just get away with it?
The Palestinians are not the problem, israel, their failed policies, oppression of legitimite heirs to Palestine, apartheid and ethnic cleansing, their moldavian thug of an FM, the ragtag IDF, and the systematic effort to wipe out a culture and people who were there before them is the problem.
Israel is the problem. And until israel and marinediaper and any other hapless idiot gets it israel will go on destroying itself, if not demographically, then morally. Is that clear enough for an obtuse person like you (and you know who you are) to understand? Good.
Most Palestinians are descendants of sudanese slaves, turks, slavs from the balkans, and arabs from syria, jordan, and saudi arabia. They were either brought to Palestine under the ottoman empire to settle the area or to exploit economic opportunities brought by the Jews.
You love to point out every example of Jewish "malice" no matter
small. but don't ever forget there is another side to the story. Not to mention if you looka t the actual population numbers of both the area itself and Jerusalem as a city, the area was never solely muslim. You act as if the Jews only showed up after 1948 and they all arrived in boats straight from the concentration camps. Before WW2, the British mandate of Palestine had a significant Jewish population. Before 1900, there was a significant Jewish populations. For the most part, Jews quietly moved there, as they have to thousands of places over the centuries as they have been pushed out for being a constant minority. After the Jews declared their own state you Arab brothers pushed an additional 1 million Jews into Israel. In fact, from 1900-1948, the Arab population in Palestine increased in proportion to the Jewish population.
Not to mention that the main things holding up negotiations is #1 the prevalent Arab belief that there should be only one Palestinian state. If your "negotiating partner" seeks only to regroup and come back stronger, then why allow them to regroup? and 2# the insistence on the right of return. This policy would lead to the end of Israel in twenty years because of the difference in birthrates. Until the Arab world can accept an Israeli state (which means ending the futile demand for a right of return), negotiations for Israel are pointless. So they fortify their position.
Palestinians want to kill Jews
Photo by: REUTERS
6 in 10 Palestinians reject 2-state solution, survey finds
By GIL HOFFMAN
15/07/2011
73% of 1,010 Palestinians in W. Bank, Gaza agree with 'hadith' quoted in Hamas Charter about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones, trees.
Only one in three Palestinians (34 percent) accepts two states for two peoples as the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, according to an intensive, face-to-face survey in Arabic of 1,010 Palestinian adults in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip completed this week by American pollster Stanley Greenberg.
The poll, which has a margin of error of 3.1 percentage points, was conducted in partnership with the Beit Sahour-based Palestinian Center for Public Opinion and sponsored by the Israel Project, an international nonprofit organization that provides journalists and leaders with information about the Middle East.
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The Israel Project is trying to reach out to the Arab world to promote “people-to-people peace.” The poll appears to indicate that the organization has a difficult task ahead.
Respondents were asked about US President Barack Obama’s statement that “there should be two states: Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people and Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people.”
Just 34% said they accepted that concept, while 61% rejected it.
Sixty-six percent said the Palestinians’ real goal should be to start with a two-state solution but then move to it all being one Palestinian state.
Asked about the fate of Jerusalem, 92% said it should be the capital of Palestine, 1% said the capital of Israel, 3% the capital of both, and 4% a neutral international city.
Seventy-two percent backed denying the thousands of years of Jewish history in Jerusalem, 62% supported kidnapping IDF soldiers and holding them hostage, and 53% were in favor or teaching songs about hating Jews in Palestinian schools.
When given a quote from the Hamas Charter about the need for battalions from the Arab and Islamic world to defeat the Jews, 80% agreed. Seventy-three percent agreed with a quote from the charter (and a hadith, or tradition ascribed to the prophet Muhammad) about the need to kill Jews hiding behind stones and trees.
But only 45% said they believed in the charter’s statement that the only solution to the Palestinian problem was jihad.
The survey’s more positive findings included that only 22% supported firing rockets at Israeli cities and citizens and that two-thirds preferred diplomatic engagement over violent “resistance.”
Among Palestinians in general 65% preferred talks and 20% violence. In the West Bank it was 69-28%, and in Gaza, 59- 32%.
Asked whether they backed seeking a Palestinian state unilaterally in the UN, 64% said yes. The number was 57% in the West Bank and 79% in Gaza. Thirty-seven percent said the UN action would bring a Palestinian state closer, 16% said it would set back the establishment of a state, and 44% said it would make no difference.
When asked what Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas’s top priorities should be, 83% said creating jobs. Just 4% said getting the UN to recognize a Palestinian state, and only 2% said peace talks with Israel.
Israel Project president Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi said she was encouraged that the Arab Spring would bring more accuracy to Arab media and by the 59% of Palestinians who are on Facebook. The Israel Project has 80,723 friends for its Arabic site, which has had 9.5 million page views in two months.
“Some of the numbers in the poll are discouraging, but we are trying to change them,” she said at a Jerusalem press conference in which Greenberg presented the findings.
Greenberg said the survey proved that there was a big need for public education and leadership on the Palestinian side.
Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi have presented the findings to President Shimon Peres, opposition leader Tzipi Livni, Vice Premier Moshe Ya’alon and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s senior adviser, Ron Dermer.
Next week, they have meetings scheduled in the White House and the Pentagon.
Israeli leaders told Greenberg and Laszlo Mizrahi they were encouraged by Palestinian support for talks.
Is the Palestinian Authority a haven for terrorism?
Yes. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the secular al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades—all formally classified as terrorist groups by the U.S. government—operate from the Palestinian-ruled territories governed by Mahmoud Abbas, who succeeded Yasir Arafat as leader of the Fatah party. The al-Aqsa Brigades are closely tied to the al-Fatah faction, but Israelis and Palestinians differ bitterly over what role Arafat and his regime played in terrorism, and many Palestinians say that violent resistance to Israeli occupation and settlement-building is legitimate.
Israel says it has documents proving that Arafat—who formerly headed the PA, an autonomous government created after Israel partly pulled out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip in return for Palestinian promises to renounce violence—sponsors terrorism. PA leaders insisted Arafat was doing all he could to fight terrorism, but they also say that Israel must restart political talks before a cease-fire can take hold and warn that Israeli attacks have destroyed the very forces Arafat could have used to crack down on terrorism.
Since Arafat’s death in 2004, Abbas, or Abu Mazen, has made an effort to restart peace negotiations with Israel. While Palestinian infrastructure—especially the security force—remain corrupt and unable to handle terrorism in the region, Abu Mazen has expressed a desire to work with militant leaders to reach a peaceful solution. He has condemned the armed Palestinian uprisings and has even attempted to end Palestinian attacks on Israelis.
Most Palestinians are descendants of sudanese slaves, turks, slavs from the balkans, and arabs from syria, jordan, and saudi arabia. They were either brought to Palestine under the ottoman empire to settle the area or to exploit economic opportunities brought by the Jews.
The jews in israel are from Russia and East Europe. You think jews taking over the land for 63 years entitles them to taking land from the Palestinains? No.Terrorism. Let's talk about illegal settlement squats terrorism against the Palestinains.
(HEBRON Haaretz) -- Approximately 50 Israeli settlers attacked the home of a Palestinian family near the illegal Kiryat Arba settlement on Wednesday, reportedly in response to the killing of four Israelis one day earlier.
A witness told Ma'an that the settlers threw empty bottles and stones at the home of Younis Idrees, and then set fire to the grass outside the building.
Jerusalem settlers assault 9 year old, parents say
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=310971
Witnesses: Settlers beat 10-year-old Palestinian girl
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=308452
Settlers harass family near settlement
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=312438
Early morning settler attack on Palestinian family in Hebron area
http://palsolidarity.org/2010/08/13883/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+palsolidarity+%28International+Solidarity+Movement%29
Israeli Settlers Attack Families And The Military Abducts Two In Hebron
http://www.imemc.org/article/59349
Masked settlers attack international peace activists in Hebron
http://palsolidarity.org/2010/08/13592/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+palsolidarity+%28International+Solidarity+Movement%29
Settlers Assault A Palestinian Woman In Hebron
http://www.imemc.org/article/59241
For the non-tourism promoting take on what the presence of the 'Settlers' brings to Hebron
http://breakingthesilence.org.il/press_item_e.asp?id=82
BTW, if you do want to visit Hebron, and not get the Potemkin villages view, http://breakingthesilence.org.il/tours_e.asp
Are 800 Jews in Hebron such a criminal incitement to the 100,000 Palestinians who surround them?
Yes they are,
http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=bQs-8iaTD14&feature=related
Check out these happy go lucky settlers,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Mwcwibv1I
Settlers Attack Palestinian Village Near Hebron Dozens of armed Jewish settlers of Bat Ayin Settlement, attacked Palestinian homes in the nearby village of Safa, north of the southern West Bank city of Hebron. The settlers hurled stones and empty bottles at the Palestinian homes, and when Israeli soldiers arrived at the scene, the soldiers fired tear gas canisters at the Palestinian residents and their homes instead of evacuating the settlers. Medical sources reported several injuries among the Palestinians who inhaled the tear gas fired by the Israeli military.
Your also forgetting Jack Teital. Teitel joins a long list including Baruch Goldstein, who gunned down 29 Muslim worshipers in Hebron’s Cave of the Patriarchs in 1994, Eden Natan-Zada, who killed four Israeli Arabs in Shfaram ahead of the Gaza disengagement in 2005, and the Bat Ayin Underground, which was caught after planting a massive bomb next to an Arab girls school in east Jerusalem in 2002.
It’s also no coincidence that Shvut Rachel, where Teitel lived, was also the home of another settler terrorist.
Israel was born out of Jewish terrorism by Stern Gang, Haganah, and Irgun. Its nascent actions were terrorism, pure and simple
Today, barely a week goes by without news of some act of violence by Jewish settlers against Palestinians in the occupied West Bank. By any definition, what settlers and other religious activists do to Palestinians is terrorism.
Time and again, Muslim graves and mosques are desecrated, harvests torched, sheep rustled, cars stoned and damaged, homes and shops forcibly occupied. Palestinians are chased off their own land by gunfire. That is terrorism.
When Palestinians fight back, as anyone would, for the Jews illegally occupying their land they are beaten, tortured, detained, shot, and killed. That is terrorism.
Asher Weissgan, who killed five Palestinian workers in 2005. A close friend of Teitel’s in the settlement is Asher Richland, who was a close collaborator with Eden Natan-Zada, yet another settler serial-murderer.
Democracy? Western values? I think not.
The attempt to demonize critics of Israel is
rapidly becoming a failed tactic. Nor does it work to demonize the Palestinians and try to ignore their plight by falsely equating their struggle for freedom as terrorism.
The Palestinians are being asked to settle for 19% of historical Palestine.
They are being asked to share their capital Jerusalem. They are being asked to not permit the
750,000 Palestinians and their descendents, whom the Israelis ethnically cleansed, to return to their homes and reclaim their property. I think that is more than enough to ask of them.
An excellent article was written days ago in the J.Post on Israeli exceptionalism.Here is a flavour :
”This is the Israeli notion of a fair deal: we‘re entitled to do whatever the hell we want to the Palestinians because, by definition, whatever we do to them is self-defense. They, however, are not entitled to lift a finger against us because, by definition, whatever they do to us is terrorism.
Until you and your hapless israelis wake up you will be de-legitmized until there is nothing left and you and your delusional co-horts will have no one but yourselves to blame. Goodluck, your going to need it.
Are Arab, Persian, Berber, Turk, Ethiopian, and Central Asian Jews. The European Jews are in the minority.
Then you better rally all those rabid holocaust jews who cam fom eastern europe, europe, and russia.
Europan jews in the minority? Good. Ship them back home or to the Negev and let thwander in their own desert for next 40 years. They deserve it.
So you are saying ship the descendants of Holocaust
survivors, or in some cases, the actual survivors themselves, into the desert and let them wander there? because they deserve it?
Wow, you are sick. And insane.
by the way betz did you ever graduate from grade school?
because your spelling and grammar are atrocious. Are you 10 years old? Or is your mind only developed at a 10 year old's level?
jews who cam fom eastern europe, europe, and russia. (Jews who "cam"?) ("Eastern europe, europe, and russia" - aren't eastern europe and russia both located in "europe") LOLZ.
Europan jews in the minority? Good. Ship them back home or to the Negev and let thwander in their own desert for next 40 years. They deserve it.
(let "thwander" "for next" - LOLZ - you mean let them wander - and "for THE next")
Hooked on Phonics can work for you Betz. Give it a try. Please. Or just never breed.
Araway -hahahahaahahahahahahaah
Resorting to character assassination, personal attacks, or unwarranted accusations is always the strategy of cheesy Israeli apologists.
One of the key reasons that the Israeli government and the Israel lobby have lost so much influence all around the world in recent years, and especially among well-educated sectors of Europe and the United States, is because they tend to rely heavily on “arguments” like the one you just made—personal attacks and smears, and especially wild accusations of antisemitism. Political movements which are standing on solid ground, and which have facts, reason and morality on their side, do not stoop to these methods.
It’s a sign of desperation and general intellectual bankruptcy.
Can't address the fact so you attack me? Bring it on shit for brain hasbarist.
with your idiotic comments, poor grammar, bad spelling and otherwise showing us that you are a fool.
Its time to stop funding the PA, the PLO and UNWRA
Another artilce posted by a fringe far-left group that reprsents 1% of the Israeli voteing group (despite massive covert and overt funding by foreign governments wishing to direclty interfere in Israeli politics).
Given that the PA wants to continue the war against Israel indefinitely and refuse to negotiate a permanent end of the conflict between the two peoples, the world has to stop pampering the palestians with massive funds and diplomatic support (around 40% of UN resolutions are related to the Arab-Israel War, even as their Arab muslim brother commit massive human rights abuses).
It high time the world send a strong unequival message to the Pals and stop funding the continuation of this conflict. Any other nation would have long since accomadated to a normal (and even prosperous) co-existence (had they not received support to remain as "refugees") with Israel. After such action maybe (a true miracle) the Pals will moderate and start to negotiate in GOOD FAITH, to recognize the Jewish nationality (yes there Temple Mount HAD A Jewish Temple, and Herod King of the Kingdom of Judea did historically build the Tomb of the Patriarachs) and start living for a better future instead of continued war.
Lara Friedman - factual and conceptual errors.
"new strategy without asking for American or Israeli approval. "
It is not a question of "approval", but of abiding by signed agreements, especially the Oslo Accords, which would prohibit such unilateral actions. (BTW, settlements are NOT mentioned in the Accords.) If one side undertakes unilateral actions, certainly Israel, for its side, would be justified in doing the same.
"their inability to get a meaningful response to anything else they propose. " What SPECIFICALLY have they proposed as compromises that move beyond their original demands of a state on the 1967 lines, with East Jerusalem as their capital?
"a Security Council resolution embracing key peace parameters. " would do nothing to change the opinions or actions of the general population (see the latest polls on Palestinian opinions on a 2-state solution, the continued existence of a Jewish state, etc.) An imposed solution will never work.
"Only negotiations that involve both Israel and the Palestinians can achieve these goals -- something that the Palestinian leadership itself has recognized." And yet they consistently refuse to negotiate without pre-conditions.
"It could become a pretext ". Why a "pretext"? What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
"a resolution that is consistent with longstanding U.S. policy;" Longstanding US, in fact, international policy is based on 242 and 338; that states that there must be negotiations to establish secure and recognized borders; nothing about 1967 lines, swaps, (not even a mention of "Palestine".)
"it was the U.N. that gave birth to Israel " Completely FALSE! The U.N. recommended yet another partition of the ancestral Jewish homeland. Israel accepted the recommendation. The Arabs refused. When the Arabs went to war to back up their refusal, the U.N. did not lift a finger in support of its own resolution. The fact of Israel today is the fact of the blood and sacrifices of those who fought for their legal, moral, and historic rights, not a benevolent gift from a hostile international community.
"Do the Palestinians have meaningful alternatives? " Absolutely! Among many options, live up to previous signed commitments, for example, to end violence, disarm and disband terrorists, and most important - end INCITEMENT against Israel, and against the Jewish People. Explicitly accept the historic and legal right for the nation state of the Jewish People to exist, in peace and security, in a small part of their ancestral homeland.
"the entire effort reflects the Palestinian leadership's continued determination to achieve progress through non-violent means." That is because repeated attempts at violent means have failed. As the Israelis see it, the hope is that since Israel will not agree to conditions that will fatally weaken it, that the world, including the U.S. will force the Palestinian demands on Israel to which it will not accede, thus preparing the way for re-newed, and hopefully successful violent means, to achieve the oft-stated, and never changed goal, of ending Jewish sovereignty and independence in Israel.
You ask, "Do the Palestinians have meaningful alternatives?"
Of course they do.
Negotiate
Without opre-conditions.
Sit accross the table from each other. Yell, Shout, Scream, Talk, Discuss, Exchange views, Seek alternatives, Nod, Extend Hands, Clasp Hands..
You owe it to your people -- not just to the PLO and Hamas.
@williambilek and friedco--- if you get your wishes(pals negotiate) will the settlers leave? if not real problems start--- payback for all the evils inflicted by the settlers. the pals have no love for them and for good reason. would israel stand to the side and let their friends(ex settlers now residents of palestine) take the well earned retribution that will certainly come their way?
if you get your wishes(pals negotiate) will the settlers leave?
Yes, they left Gaza. And that is when the Israeli's didn't even negotiate.
But, then again, if Israel has 1 million Arab citizens....why can't a Palestine state have 500,000 or less Jewish citizens? Why do they have to be ethnically cleansed from the West Bank if they agree to live in peace?
No choice but the UN for Palestinians
The Palestinians have no choice but to take their case to the United Nations following a speech to the US Congress by Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu, a Palestinian negotiator said on Tuesday. "After the Netanyahu speech, the Palestinians have only one choice – to go to the UN in September. to the General Assembly," negotiator Mohammad Shtayeh told tori black, referring to plans to seek UN recognition in September of Palestinian statehood. Netanyahu's address to both houses of Congress was widely seen by analysts and commentators as offering the Palestinians nothing of sufficient substance to pave the way for a re-launch of peace talks which broke down late last year in an intractable dispute about Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank. Hamas has called on the Palestinian Authority to "Tear the peace agreements with Israel to pieces" in response to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's US Congress address. In his speech, Netanyahu requested Abbas to back out on the Palestinian unity agreement.
The Middle East Channel offers unique analysis and insights on this diverse and vital region of more than 400 million.
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